World Golf Village
500 South Legacy Trail
St. Augustine,
Florida 32092
Plenary Session
June 20, 2014
8:30 AM
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
Dick Browdy,
Chairman David
Gilson
Steve Bassett Jeff
Gross
James Batts Brian
Langille
Bob Boyer Beth
Meyer
Donald Brown Darrell
Phillips
Oscar Calleja Bradley
W. Schiffer
Jay Carlson Frederick
Schilling
David Compton Jim
Schock
Nan Dean Drew
Smith
Kevin Flanagan Jeff
Stone
Charles Frank Brian Swope
Tim Tolbert
COMMISSIONERS
NOT PRESENT:
Hamid Bahadori Robert
Hamberger
OTHERS PRESENT:
.
Jim Richmond Chris
Burgwald
Mo Madani April
Hammonds
Norman
Bellamy Jim
Hammers
MEETING
FACILITATION:
The meeting was
facilitated by Jeff Blair from the FCRC Consensus Center at Florida State
University. Information at: http://consensus.fsu.edu/
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Plenary Session
June
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Welcome:
Time: 8:30 am
Chairman Browdy welcomed
Commissioners, staff, and members of the public to St. Augustine and the June
20, 2014 plenary session of the Florida Building Commission. He stated that in addition to considering
regular procedural issues including product and entity approvals, applications
for accreditor and course approvals, petitions for declaratory statements,
accessibility waivers, and recommendations from our various committees, the
primary focus of the June meeting is to conduct scheduled rule initiatives, and
to review and approve the Commission's Fiscal Year 2013-2014 Annual Report.
Chairman Browdy advised members
of the public to sign the attendance sheet on the speaker’s table in the center
of the room. In addition, we have a sign-up sheet for general public comment. He
stated as always, we will provide an opportunity for public comment on each of
the Commission’s substantive discussion topics (actions that are not procedural
or ministerial in content). Chairman
Browdy sated if a member of the public would like to comment on a specific
substantive Commission agenda item, please come to the speaker’s table when the
issue is up for consideration so we know you want to speak. He advised that public
input is welcome, but should be offered before there is a formal motion on the
floor. Chairman Browdy asked that all participants and members of the audience
keep all electronic devices turned off
or in a silent mode. Thank you for your cooperation.
Chairman Browdy stated that there
are also buff colored “Public Comment Forms” on the speakers’ table that
can be used to provide written comments. All written comments will be included
in the Facilitator’s Summary Report. Please give your completed “Public
Comment Forms” to Jeff Blair. He
advised some of the licensing boards located within the Department of Business
and Professional Regulation have adopted rules regarding continuing education
credits for attending Florida Building Commission meetings and/or Technical
Advisory Committee meetings. If your board participates you may sign-in on the
kiosk laptop provided in the meeting room.
Jim Richmond advised that the Kiosk
is specifically for the Commissioners to obtain their credits, this is
primarily the reason for the system to be in the room. He further stated that Ila Jones has been
tremendously adept given her history with DBPR and with education issues in obtaining
credit. He stated as of June 29, 2014
Ila will no longer be with the department, and we will be losing that valuable
skill.
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Plenary Session
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Roll
Call:
Chairman Browdy performed roll
call, a quorum was met with twenty three members present.
Chairman Browdy requested that Jeff Blair cover the agenda items
for the meeting today.
Jeff Blair welcomed participants to
the February Plenary Session and introduced the agenda as follows:
To Consider Regular Procedural
Issues: Agenda Approval and Approval of the April 17, 2014 Facilitator’s
Summary Report and Meeting Minutes; and March 24, April 28, and May 12, 2004
Teleconference Meeting Minutes.
Chairman Browdy requested a motion to approve the June
20, 2014 agenda as presented. A motion
was entered by Commissioner Brown and seconded by Commissioner Schock, the
motion passed unanimously.
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Approval of the April 17, 2014
Facilitator’s Summary Report and Meeting Minutes, March 24, April 28 and May
12, 2014 Teleconference Meeting Minutes:
Chairman Browdy requested a motion
to approve the April 17, 2014 Facilitator’s Summary
Report and Meeting Minutes, March 24, April 28 and May 12, 2014 Teleconference Meeting Minutes as
presented/posted.
Commissioner Schiffer entered a
Motion to approve the April 17, 2014 Facilitator’s Summary
Report and Meeting Minutes, March 24, April 28 and May 12, 2014 Teleconference Meeting Minutes. Commissioner Schilling seconded the
Motion. The Motion passed unanimously.
Chairman’s
Discussion Issues and Recommendations:
Appointments:
Chairman Browdy advised that Jay
Carlson, has been appointed as Chairman to the Code Administration Technical
Advisory Committee.
He further asked for Commission
consent for preparing of resolution for the honor of the service of Hermino
Gonzalez, Commissioner who served the Florida Building Commission and the State
of Florida very well and very collegially the last twelve years.
Commissioner Tolbert entered a
motion for the preparation of the resolution.
Commissioner Calleja seconded the motion, the motion passed unanimously.
Chairman Browdy advised that
David Gilson is being appointed as a member of the Code Administration
TAC. He further stated that Bob
Hamberger is being appointed as a member of the Product Approval POC.
Condolences/Moment
of Silence for Jack Glenn
Chairman Browdy said that many of
you may have heard that on the morning of June 9th, the Commission lost a dear
friend and advocate. Jack Glenn passed away unexpectedly.
He said that Jack was the former
Building Official and Fire Marshall of the City of Melbourne in Brevard County.
He retired in 1998 and relocated to Tallahassee accepting the position of
Director of Technical Services for the Florida Homebuilders Association.
Chairman Browdy said that Jack
was an integral part of the evolution of the Florida Building Code. For over 16
years he enthusiastically participated in the code development process. Most of
the time Jack would introduce himself as a representative of the Florida
Homebuilders
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Plenary Session
June
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Condolences/Moment
of Silence for Jack Glenn (cont.)
Association and at other times he
would make his comments "representing himself." Jack was an
outstanding instructor in code education and a strong advocate for our
consensus-building processes.
He said that Jack was a colleague
and a friend and his contributions to our efforts and his overwhelming presence
will be sorely missed. Chairman Browdy advised that we have sent a message of
condolence on the Commissions behalf to the members of Jack's family.
The Commission will now observe a
moment of silence in memory of Jack O. Glenn. Thank you.
Research Projects Update:
Chairman
Browdy stated
that the TAC’s will be meeting during the week of June 23rd to accept the final
reports for the research projects funded by the Commission. He said there will
be TAC recommendations for the Commission’s consideration at the August
Commission meeting. Chairman Browdy said that an e-mail was sent to interested
parties on June 13, 2013 with the meeting dates and times for the relevant
TACs.
Chairman Browdy provided the
following dates for the TAC meetings.
June 24, 2014
9:00 A.M. Accessibility TAC
1:00 P.M.
Structural TAC
June 25, 2014
2:30 P.M Mechanical TAC
June 26, 2014
10:00 A.M.
Swimming Pool TAC
1:00 P.M. Energy
TAC
June 27, 2014
9:00 A.M. Roofing
TAC
1:30 P.M. Fire
TAC
Chairman Browdy told the
Commissioners and TAC members that they would receive electronic notification
prior to the meetings.
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Chairman’s
Discussion Issues and Recommendations (cont.):
Travel
Reimbursement Documentation
Chairman Browdy stated since June
30 is the end of the fiscal year Jim will review with the Commission the
schedule for getting travel documentation to DBPR for June’s travel
reimbursement.
Jim Richmond advised the Commission
that it is vital that the travel information be processed and sent to our
Finance Department by “Friday, June 27th. He further stated for that reason that it be
completed and returned as soon as possible.
If you mail it in, the mail needs to be in by the 25th if
possible for processing. He asked if
they could possibly sign and give them to Chris today and they will be
processed right away. He asked that the
Commission to please get them to us no later than next week because if they are
not received reimbursement payment could be late September or even October.
Letter
Received in Office:
Chairman Browdy advised the
Commission that a letter had been received in the office in reference to issues
relating to swimming pools and electrical connections in swimming pools and
electrocution as a result of electrical issues relating to installation of
electrical devices in and around swimming pools. He asked if there was a Mr. Irv Chazen or a
Mr. Chris Sloan present. Chairman Browdy
passed over the issue at this time, if either of these gentlemen are present
during public comment; it will be addressed and discussed.
Accessibility
Waiver Applications:
Chairman Browdy the Commission
will now consider this month’s requests for accessibility waivers. April Hammonds will serve as legal
counsel and present the Accessibility Advisory Council’s recommendations. He
then asked April please present the Councils’ recommendations regarding waiver
requests in turn.
High
Reach 2 Office and Maintenance Facility, 260 Hickman Road, Sanford – Council recommended granting
with condition that the lift be within the office envelope, there was not a
quorum, but the recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Gross entered a motion to
accept the Council Members recommendation to grant with condition that the lift
be within the office envelope.
Commissioner Schilling seconded the motion.
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Accessibility
Waiver Applications (Cont.):
Commissioner Schiffer stated that this
should not be granted with a platform lift, this building should have an
elevator as the second floor is conference rooms and offices. He said that they should install elevator.
The motion passed with 19 Commissioners
in favor and 4 Commissioners opposing.
Boathouse
Restaurant, 49 S. W. Seminole Street, Stuart; - Council recommended granting
based on technical infeasibility and disproportionate cost, there was not a
quorum, but the recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Schock entered a motion to
accept the Council Member’s recommendation.
Commissioner Meyer seconded the motion.
The motion passed unanimously.
Madame
Tussaud’s, 8387 International Drive, Orlando; - Council recommended granting
with condition that the lift be installed, there was not a quorum, but the
recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Gilson entered a motion to
accept the Council Member’s recommendation.
Commissioner Schiffer seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Zed
Holdings Warehouse, 3564 Plover Avenue, Naples; - Council recommended denial based
new construction, it is not infeasible and the space would house more than five
people easily, there was not a quorum,
but the recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Schock entered a
motion to the
Council Member’s recommendation of denial.
Commissioner Meyer seconded the motion.
The motion passed unanimously.
Renovations
to 904 Margaret Street, 904 Margaret Street, Jacksonville; - Council recommended granting
based on historic nature of the building and technical infeasibility, there was
not a quorum, but the recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Schiffer entered a motion
to accept the Council Member’s recommendation of approval. Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
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Accessibility
Waiver Applications (Cont.):
Kappa
Delta Sorority, 555 West Jefferson Street, Tallahassee; - - Resubmission from August 2013
meeting. Council recommended denial
based on location of parking space and exit door and the fact that someone from
inside would have to let the person in, there was not a quorum, but the
recommendation of the individuals present on the call.
Commissioner Meyer entered a
motion to accept the Council Member’s recommendation of denial. Commissioner Schock seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
Applications
for Product Entity Approval:
Chairman Browdy advised that
Commissioner Stone present the DBPR staff recommendations for entity approvals
and the consent agenda for products recommended for approval. He further stated Jeff Blair will present the
DBPR staff recommendations for product approval with discussion and or
comments. Chairman Browdy said that the
consent agenda will be presented first followed by entity approvals and
concluded with discussion items.
Commissioner Stone advised the Product Approval
POC failed to obtain a quorum for the June 5th meeting. He stated that there were two entities on the
consent agenda.
Commissioner Stone entered motion to
approve the two entities on the consent agenda.
Commissioner Dean seconded the motion, the motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Stone advised there were
105 products on the consent agenda for product approval two of which were
inadvertently left off for today’s meeting.
He said those two products were 16896 a revision of JELD-WEN single hung
windows and the other was 16897 which was for JELD-WEN fixed windows and he
requested that they should be added to the consent agenda.
Commissioner Stone entered a motion to
approve the amended consent agenda to include products 16896 and 16897 for a
total of 105 products. Commissioner Dean
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
Commissioner Stone advised that there
were six products with comments for Jeff Blair to introduce for discussion.
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Plenary Session
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Jeff Blair stated the first product is
1850R9 and there were public comments and the staff recommendation is for
approval. He then called for public
comment on this product approval.
Jamie Gascon, Miami Dade County, stated
he here to speak against 1850.R9 for use in the high velocity hurricane zone
for the following reason, in January 2014 while investigating a complaint on the
length of screw pins used in this product the American Shutter Systems
Association, Inc. (ASSA) uncovered that
the length of the originally tested pins was three inches and not two and three
quarters as specified in the approvals.
He further stated that all of the original tests reports indicate two
and three quarter inch screws, therefore Miami-Dade County worked with ASSA and
Mr. Feeley and their Engineer to devise a test plan that could serve to salvage
and confirm that one the shorter screws work and two that it serves to justify all
previously established limits of views.
Jamie stated he indicated to Mr. Feeley that Dade County wanted to be
present at these tests since these were also being conducted to salvage and
satisfy conditions approved in Dade County since 2010. The test plan was approved 5/16/2014, for
this application the revised evaluation lists a series of addendum test report
and new testing with a report date of 4/30/2014, the test protocols require
notifying the authorities having jurisdiction seven days prior to the start
date of the test to arrange and plan for viewing the tests. Mr. Gascon stated that a test notification was
sent but indicated that the test were to start on May 1, 2014. He said he recalled that Miami-Dade County was
reviewing and working on a test plan with ASSA and it was not approved or
completed until 5/16/2014. He said
therefore the required test notification cannot be for the year over year test
and one has to conclude that the testing is not with compliance with the
required TAS. He said he is requesting
that the Commission exclude this product for use in the High velocity Hurricane
zone.
Fred Dudley stated he was present on
behalf of American Shutter Systems Association and with him today was Bill
Feeley and also Consultant Ted Berman.
Mr. Dudley stated that Mr. Feeley and Mr. Berman are present for any
technical questions.
Mr. Dudley stated he understood Mr. Gascon’s position, he said his client had several NOA’s in
Miami-Dade and initially they had planned to keep those, however, they decided
it is not worth it. He stated in his
view Mr. Gascon has imposed some testing protocols that were highly
questionable. He further stated
ultimately Mr. Feeley agreed to the protocols and the tests were done. Mr. Dudley said he would allow him to respond
if he has any technical issues with the test report. He said that there are technical issues, he
feels his sole complaint is that because of this carry over from the South
Florida Building Code about test notifications, he received the notification
and from American Testing Lab who is the certified lab, they sent it back to
the e-mail address that is designated for Miami-Dade on the 24th of
April this year. He advised what the
e-mail advised, which was testing on May 1, in accordance with the
protocol. Mr. Dudley said the test lab
chose to run the test the day before on the 30th of April and they
ran it on the 6th
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Plenary Session
June
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
day in order to make today’s meeting
because if they waited until the second of June they would not be able to go
before the Commission until August. He
further stated the actual complaint from Miami-Dade they did not come on the 1st
of May, had they shown up on that date, and were told it was completed a day
early, he would understand the concern, but what the complaint now is no harm
no foul, he said Mr. Gascon’s own staff does not have the time or budget to
witness these testing. He further stated
no one showed up for the test date as a matter of fact no-one ever shows up
from Miami-Dade. Mr. Dudley shared a
letter dated 6/18/2014 from Tony Porcello, ATI testing,
April Hammonds requested a copy of the
letter and the letter will be placed in file with minutes of the meeting.
Chairman Browdy stated that Mr. Madani
will speak in regards to the Product Approval Rule and how it relates to
testing and the witnessing of that testing.
Mr., Madani said that the Product that
is being addressed is a product that was submitted for State approval and it is
utilizing an evaluation by an engineer.
He said in regards to the Florida Building Code it is clear in the
standards it refers to “having the authorities having jurisdictions”, and in
this case it is not Miami-Dade it is the State of Florida. Mr. Madani stated to his knowledge the State
has not been onsite for the testing of any products.
Mr. Gascon stated that one thing that he
asked if the authority having jurisdiction was notified and the notification
were not in line required in the protocol and if the State were notified which
was not shown to be the case. He stated
the testing notification was sent to Miami-Dade and the test number was on the
report which was reported by the staff.
He said the reason they did not show up at the lab on May 1st
because the test protocol was not approved under May 16th.
Mr. Dudley stated that Mr. Feeley and
Mr. Berman are both here if there are any questions on the test results, please
direct to them.
Chairman Browdy asked if the Commission
had questions or comments.
Commissioner Compton asked if the test
were performed on April 30th but the test protocol was not approved
until May which was later than the test date.
Mr. Dudley stated they disagreed, there
were several meeting with Mr. Gascon in April where there were four tests
requested asked for three but ended up with four tests. He said there was an attempt to have an
agreement on test protocol and it did not happen until after the tests were
done, however, his client did run the test that Mr. Gascon asked for.
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Commissioner Stone asked if the
Commission had the power to waiver a procedural requirement, he knew we could
not waive a technical requirement.
Mr. Madani stated we were notified and
understood testing was going to take place, so with that we were notified, he
said we never ask a test lab with this notification and he did not recall any
follow-up, so everyone is being treated in a consistent manner.
April Hammonds, Esq. stated she said it
was somewhat responsive because the state was aware, but procedurally we have
to be very careful and cognizant of applying things arbitrally and capriciously
and if no tests of product approval are observed by the State or Miami Dade
based on the letter received which could be used as testimony in a
hearing. She stated to require one
product when not required of any other product could possibly open up legal
issues all applicants have to be treated the same. April stated that there was phone
conversation that the testing was scheduled.
She stated she was not sure Mr. Gascon received the notice or not. She did not know if the complaint is actually
originated by Mr. Gascon based on communication received from another
complainant that has already been heard and disposed of by this
Commission. Ms. Hammonds stated we need
to be cautious setting president if we are going to require the State to be
present for testing on one product, we will need to be present for testing on
all products.
Commissioner Stone entered a motion to
approve the product in accordance with the presentation. Commissioner Boyer seconded the motion. Chairman Browdy asked for comments or
questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Compton asked Mr. Gascon if
the testing that was completed meet his approval.
Mr. Gascon stated Miami-Dade County has
not received a formal submittal of the test report. He further stated that the information that
was provided by the State does raise questions on their part on the overall
observations of those that witnessed the test.
Mr. Gascon said it indicated for example there was no penetration of the
missile upon impact that alone is not the criteria all inclusive in TAS 201, so
hence the reason they wanted to participate and be there for the particular
testing. He said one thing is that they
do not routinely attend all of the testing, they do reserve the right the view the
test as indicated in the protocol and it is not just one laboratory, they we would
go and witness test for. Mr. Gascon
stated there are 70 labs approved throughout the country and all of these labs
follow the same notification procedure, in all cases Miami-Dade County has
traditionally been done.
Fred Dudley advised that this lab is
fifty miles from Mr. Gascon’s Office.
Commissioner Schock asked if testing
complied with the protocol as requested.
Question for Mr. Dudley.
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June
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Dudley stated he believed it did,
however he is not the technical expert, they are present if you would like to
address that to Mr. Berman.
Commissioner Schock responded stating
that the question for him is did they meet the requirements and also would the
Engineer who supervised this test be willing to provide a signed sealed
affidavit that they did meet the requirements?
Chairman Browdy asked who would like to
respond to Commissioner Schock’s questions.
Bill Feeley, President of the American
Shutter Systems Association Inc., stated in this process of testing, they met
with Mr. Gascon and his staff in his office, they had a number of meetings
regarding this protocol and it boiled down to four test specimens. He further stated that the last meeting they
had was on April 10,, 2014 that was with Jamie, Staff Engineer Mr. McCarr and the Associations
Engineer, who is a structural engineer and himself, where Jamie agreed to the
testing protocol. He stated what they
ended up doing was on April 24, 2014 was to test and get a product application
to the Florida Building Commission to beat the May 2, 2014 deadline, so with
the verbal agreement of the protocol they notified Miami-Dade on April 24th,
the testing was done and they submitted May 2, 2014. Mr. Feeley stated then on May 16, 2014, Jamie
changed our agreement and put down and requested that they test some three inch
screws. Testing has been done three inch
screws. He stated the protocol was
approved verbally and that is what they tested to and what was submitted.
Chairman
Browdy asked if this answered the question.
Commissioner Schock asked again if the
Engineer who supervised this test be willing to provide a signed sealed
affidavit that they did meet the requirements?
Mr. Feeley stated he believed that had
been done. He also said that if the
affidavit was needed that he was certain they would be able to secure it from
the engineer.
Commissioner Schock stated he would like
them to take the extra step to secure the affidavit and he would then support
the approval.
Chairman Browdy asked if Commissioner
Stone would like to amend his motion to include the affidavit. Commissioner Stone modified his motion to
require the petitioner to submit a signed sealed affidavit by a Florida
Registered Engineer regarding the product and the protocol. The motion was seconded by Commissioner
Boyer.
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Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Madani stated that this product
approval is based on an evaluation of an Engineer, in this case we did get the
evaluation was completed based on Codes and Standards along with a copy of the
test report. He stated it is signed by
the tester and the observing Engineer Steven Warner, P.E. who witnessed the
test, signed and sealed. Mr. Madani
stated we do have a report that is creditable.
Commissioner Gilson asked Mr. Gascon the
statement earlier was that they have never witnessed testing there.
Mr. Gascon stated that they have
witnessed testing at this facility; it is about 25 miles from their office and
they routinely pass by it.
Commissioner Gilson asked if they
normally witness testing or they have witnessed testing.
Mr. Gascon stated that they do not routinely
witness testing, but under the circumstances and all that transpired since
January this year and in discussions with the applicant personally indicating
that they wanted to be present for the test we would have expected all of that
would have been followed. He said there
was an attempt, however, it did not work out to what the codes requires.
April Hammonds, Esq. for the record
asked Mr. Gascon when he spoke of since January and that he does not routinely,
would this have been at the urging of a complaint received from someone.
Mr. Gascon stated absolutely.
Ms. Hammonds asked if the complaint was
from Dawn Stover?
Mr. Gascon stated yes and as part of the
investigation in making sure that all of this is followed through, thus the
request to be present at the test.
Ms. Hammonds asked Mr. Gascon if he was
aware of the e-mails that she sent out making threats and despairing remarks regarding
all of the processes and things of that nature, laced with profanities?
Mr. Gascon stated yes he was aware.
Commissioner Compton stated his question
was the test report from April 30 does it meet the requirements that were
agreed upon May 16.
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Plenary Session
June
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Madani stated whatever was agreed on
with outside groups does not have effect on the Product Approval process. He said we only speak of what is submitted to
us, that is a test lab that certified to us that this meets the code and
standards and certified to us that this testing meets the standards and
witnessed, whatever was agreed on outside, we were not involved.
Commissioner Brown out of observation,
that it seems to him with the comments from Mr. Madani, there is a rabbit
trail, whether or not it meet the requirements of May 18th
protocol. He stated in his opinion it is
irrelevant, he said there appears to have been an agreement. He further stated that we have been presented
with the correct documentation.
Commissioner Tolbert, stated
Commissioner Brown answered, if this product meets state requirement, we do not
have any choice.
Commissioner Calleja stated he felt this
is all about the protocol. He asked is
there a standard protocol by code that is certified in the report or letter and
what difference does that have with the second protocol, the May 16th
protocol. He said if the test
certification is seal and signed by Engineer meets the state requirement then
there is not issue.
Mr. Madani confirmed for Commissioner
Calleja.
Chairman Browdy read the current
motion. He did ask Commissioner Schock
if the amendment should stay in place.
Commissioner Swope asked is this for a Florida
product approval for the state and not Miami Dade approval, correct.
April Hammonds, Esq. stated the
amendment that is being putting forth is requiring an additional requirement
that is not contained in statute or rule under the Florida Building Commission
product approval statute or rule. She stated she would be hesitant to encourage
this vote with an amendment since we have the state required document, signed
seal by Florida Engineer, which could impose an additional burden.
Commissioner Compton proposed an
amendment to remove the amendment and place the motion back to the original
motion. Commissioner Tolbert seconded
the motion, the motion passed with 21 members in favor and 2 members opposed.
Commissioner Stone entered a motion to
approve the product in accordance with the presentation. Commissioner Boyer seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.
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Plenary Session
June
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
11429.0 - Commissioner Stone entered motion to
defer as recommended by the POC; Commissioner Compton seconded the motion
passed unanimously.
14969-R1 - Commissioner
Stone entered motion to conditionally approve as recommended by the POC;
Commissioner Compton seconded the motion passed unanimously.
15044-R1 - Commissioner
Stone entered motion to approve as recommended by the POC; Commissioner Compton
seconded the motion passed unanimously.
16979
- Commissioner
Stone entered motion to conditionally approve as recommended by the POC;
Commissioner Compton seconded the motion passed unanimously.
16996
-
Commissioner Stone entered motion to conditionally approve as recommended by
the POC; Commissioner Compton seconded the motion passed unanimously.
Applications
for Accreditor and Course Approval:
Chairman Browdy requested that
Commissioner Dean present the Education POC’s recommendations regarding
applications for accreditor and course approval.
Commissioner Dean provided the
following Advanced Course from the POC for Commission action:
647.0 - Commissioner
Dean entered a motion to approve as recommended by the POC, Commissioner Stone
seconded the motion, the motion passed unanimously.
Petitions
for Declaratory Statement: Legal
Report
Chairman Browdy asked April
Hammonds, Legal Counsel for the Commission if there were any other legal issues
or legislative issues in addition to the declaratory statement requests.
Ms. Hammonds stated there were no
legal issues to discuss.
Chairman Browdy requested that
Ms. Hammonds present the declaratory statements.
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June
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Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
DS2014-042
by Barry A. Schneer;
Ms. Hammonds read the petition from Mr. Barry
A, Schneer with response.
Commissioner Schiffer entered a motion
to accept the staff recommendation, Code Administration TAC and legal
recommendation to deny as the Commission does not have authority. Commissioner Smith seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously.
DS-2014-043
by Donald L. Fuchs of the City of Oviedo;
Ms. Hammonds read the petition from Mr. Donald L.
Fuchs with response.
Ms. Hammonds stated the petitioner amended his
question to allow the TAC to better understand and answer the question.
Chairman Browdy asked for any public comment.
Dwight Wilkes, representing himself asked as a
member of the Electrical TAC he supported the question, however, the discussion
in all of the TAC referred to Utility easement, that when townhomes became
popular, contractors switched from building apartments and condos to townhome,
they wanted to maintain the same type of construction, which is under the slab
utilities. He stated his question to
legal was if a utility easement was written into the deed in allowing the
utilities under the slab and the utilities are on common property that is
maintained by the Home Owners Association, would this be acceptable.
Ms. Hammonds responded stating that question would
be outside the jurisdiction of this Commission.
She referred to the part of the question stating “written into the deed”
that brings up an issue that is contained in the petition, which is that these
townhomes are called fee simple townhomes, which means each townhome is
individually owned and that includes all of their space above and the ground
below. Ms. Hammonds further stated
regarding the easements and homeowners associations, deeds and that would be
outside of the jurisdiction of this Commission to address that issue, which was
why the question was clarified to enable the TAC and Commission to address some
of the question regarding Code related issues.
Mr. Wilkes stated he appreciated the legal answer,
which is the information provided when he was an Inspector with St. Johns
County. When he was denied the permit, it
was because of the deed requirement exemption.
Will this be left up to each jurisdiction of the code enforcement? He wanted to know if the jurisdiction be
liable for their decision to issue permits?
Ms. Hammonds stated this would be outside of her
clients interest therefore could not respond.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
17
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Wilkes asked if the building official was
challenged in a court of law would he be in violation of the Code if this was
allowed in his jurisdiction.
There would need to be legal counsel hired.
Donald Fuchs, City of Oviedo, stated he was
available for any questions.
Commissioner Flanagan, Electrical TAC, stated the
first reading of question was bothersome, however with clarification, the staff
clarified that this was only for the petitioners jurisdiction.
Commissioner Tolbert stated he agreed that most
townhomes are independent, however there are exceptions.
Commissioner Calleja wanted definition of utilities,
would that be plumbing, water, electrical.
He further stated that a lot of cases where the air conditioning units
are at the end of the building and not behind each unit with piping
underground.
Chairman Browdy asked if the air conditioning was
included in the petition.
Ms. Hammonds stated this was not specified in the
petition.
Mr. Fuchs clarified that air conditioning was not
included in the petition, however, there are feeders from the end of the
buildings going to individual buildings and then there is branch circuiting
going out to the air conditioning.
Chairman Browdy clarified that the action of the
Commission will be solely based on the information contained from the request
on the declaratory statement.
Commissioner Flanagan entered a motion to accept the
staff recommendation with amendment of question with agreement from the Code
Administration TAC, Electrical TAC and Fire TAC. Commissioner Tolbert seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously.
DS2014-052
by Rich Clark of CLP Systems; Staff
Analysis
April Hammonds, Esq. stated there was not a quorum
for the Product Approval POC so this petition for declaratory statement will be
heard anew by the entire Commission today.
She further stated that Mr. Madani will present the staff analysis on
this issue.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
18
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Madani provided the petition questions and the staff
analysis to the Commission. He advised
the analysis outlines the request and the basis for the staff recommendation.
Chairman Browdy advised the Commission that they have
heard the petition and staff analysis.
He then asked for any public comment.
Rich Clark, CLP Systems stated they had received the
verbal analyst given in 2009, this question still pertains heavily particularly
in the panhandle, in Tallahassee and in Tampa.
He stated they have completed 100 jobs in Hillsborough County. He said purpose today is to not only get an
analysis, but to find a remedy for how they handle this with the building codes
when they continue to ask for product approval, when it is something they
cannot obtain.
Chairman Browdy stated that the issue is one of
uniform code enforcement with his product as presented throughout the state.
Mr. Clark stated yes.
Chairman Browdy stated the Commission is not in the
code enforcement business. He stated
they are limited to offer the opinion from the Commission. He further stated with Building Officials on
the Commission, there is diversity throughout the State.
Commissioner Schock stated a comment was made that
it appears to be an interpretation that this is a one of a kind product. He said in the declaratory statement the
product is utilized in many projects.
Mr. Clark stated our product is one of a kind as
each project is specific; they are designed individual projects off of the
structural design for the lateral forces of the shear wall hold downs and off
of the roof truss load that they receive from truss manufacturers. He said every product is different; they do
not sell their product off of the shelf, it is not a package product through
retail.
Chairman Browdy stated it is similar to a truss
which is used by engineered specifically to the job.
Mr. Clark stated that is correct.
Commissioner Schock asked if it was like the go bolt
systems.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
19
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Mr. Clark stated it is similar to the go bolt system
in that it is a threaded rod system but it is not similar to go bolt in the
manner that they do not sell their product through retail, they do not sell to
single family structure, it is only on multifamily structures, other than
military housing, large tracks, where they design, sign and seal each project.
Commissioner Compton stated he is trying to
understand why this is a custom one time product. He further said that it seemed to him that
all they have is standard rods that is used over and over and engineered and
custom to the project. He also stated
this is like the Go Bolt, he said he did not understand why because he has 100
projects why they are considered custom.
April Hammonds stated on a legal point, when under
statute law, rule and case law, we are presumed to take the facts as presented
in a declaratory petition as true. She
said in this instance the answer that is presented by staff is that this is
within the jurisdiction of the local agency, but regarding the facts, the facts
are true as taken from the petition.
Mr. Clark stated they do not determine what diameter
what frequency, spacing of their product, all of that is determined by the engineer
of record and truss loads as they receive them and design them. He said it is not a predetermined decision. He provided the Commission with additional
details of types of installations.
Commissioner Compton stated even with the Go Bolt
system, every job is signed and sealed by an engineer, they are all custom
job. He further stated that Mr. Clark
had made reference that he was not able to obtain a product approval number for
the State of Florida and wanted to know why.
Mr. Clark stated they had asked what needed to be
done. He stated they used to be Hurry
Bolt America prior to CLP systems, they wanted a NOA and product approval, but
were told they could not get an approval but were denied as they were not under
jurisdiction. He further stated they
would like an approval they want the approval and what do they need to do to
get it, or they don’t need it and make it standard for all.
Commissioner Compton confirmed that their product
was under Hurry Bolt and stated he was very familiar with the product not as
custom.
Chairman Browdy advised that the recommendations
have been heard and asked for any further comments.
Randy Shackelford, Simpson Strongtie, stated he
disagrees with staff analysis, this is not a custom product and they feel it
should it have product approval as other systems are required to
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
20
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
have. He said
this is a system and not a component. He
gave further comments regarding reasoning of being in the product approval
program. He said this is a proprietary
product which should be approved by the state and an evaluation completed. He presented other information that he based
his opinion on.
Chairman Browdy stated this declaratory statement
has undergone a staff review, but has not gone to the Product Approval POC, he
said it under the discretion of the Commission.
Commissioner Compton entered a motion to deny the
declaratory statement.
Chairman Browdy stated there was a motion to deny.
Jeff Blair stated that the motion should be to
answer the declaratory statement.
April Hammonds, Esq. advised that the Commission
cannot make a motion to deny the declaratory statement; she said they could
send it back to the Product Approval POC and allow them to review and make a
recommendation to the Commission which would be appropriate. She further stated that unless there is a
legal standard the declaratory statement cannot be denied. Ms. Hammonds advised further that the
Commission can certainly send this request back to the Product Approval POC for
further review.
Commissioner Compton entered a new motion to send
the request back to the Product Approval POC.
Commissioner Swope seconded to the motion.
Chairman Browdy advised of the motion and did advise
the Commission and the Petitioner that there is a waiting period which will
need to be waived in order to accommodate the motion, which he believes will be
90 days. Chairman Browdy advised that
the Petitioner will have to agree to this, otherwise action will need to take
place today.
Chairman Browdy asked Mr. Clark if he was willing to
waive the 90 day period for his response.
Mr. Clark was not advocating either way and did
clarify that they did ask for product approval and were advised it would
outside of the Florida Building Code, they are seeking direction.
Jim Richmond advised of the process and advised that
this petition would be prepared to be heard in August.
Mr. Clark asked to respond to Mr. Shackelford
regarding his statement on proprietary components and provided the answer and
background information.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
21
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Chairman Browdy asked Mr. Clark if he wished the
Commission to respond today or allow the POC the opportunity due to lack of
quorum at the last meeting and allow this to come before the Commission in
August.
April Hammonds, Esq. advised Mr. Clark of the normal
process of going before the POC. She
advised they are well rehearsed in products.
Ms. Hammonds advised they would be able to craft an answer that would
solidly address the question with full discussion. She said it would come back
to the full Commission in August.
Mr. Clark stated he wanted to state yes, however
this has been going on since 2009.
Ms. Hammonds stated as the answer reads now you will
not have a uniform answer throughout the State of Florida, it would be up to
every building official as to whether they would take your product or not.
Mr. Clark stated he would agree to waiver.
Chairman Browdy said that there is a motion on the
floor to defer back to the POC and then be brought back to the Commission in
August at the Plenary Meeting.
Commissioner Stone advised he is against this
motion, he feels it is a waste of time. He said the members of the POC are at
attendance at this meeting. He disagrees
with the staff analysis and feels this meets the need for Product Approval.
Commissioner Schock stated if the vote is successful
and goes back to the POC, he would like to recommend that it also go back to
the Structural TAC.
Commissioner Compton amended the motion to defer and
refer back to the Product Approval POC and the Structural to be brought back to
the Commission in August. Second was
given by Commissioner Swope.
April Hammonds, Esq. advised that if they disagree
with staff analysis they will need to draft a response today.
Chairman Browdy called for a hand count on the
vote. Jeff Blair advised there were 13
votes in favor and 10 opposed. The
motion passed as it is a declaratory which uses the simple majority vote.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
22
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
DS2014-057
by David G. Karins, Karins Engineering Group, Inc.;
April Hammonds, Esq. advised that there was a
request received 6/3/2014 to withdraw the petition by Mr. Karins, this is being
brought before the Commission for informational purposes.
Ms. Hammonds read the petition from Mr.
Chester Darby with multiple projects and responses for each.
Chairman Browdy requested that each project be voted
on individually.
Ms. Hammonds read project one with response.
Chester Darby, Petitioner and Owner, Florida
Building Services and will be available for any questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Compton entered motion to accept the
Code Administration TAC and Structural TAC recommendation, Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. Commissioner
Schiffer asked Mr. Darby when he made the request he only went to one
subsection of the inspection. Mr. Darby
explained the whole he is trying fill.
Chairman Browdy further clarified Mr. Darby’s statement. The motion
passed unanimously.
Ms. Hammonds read project two with response.
Commissioner Compton entered motion to accept the
Code Administration TAC and Structural TAC recommendation, Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
Ms. Hammonds read project three with response.
Commissioner Compton entered motion to accept the
Code Administration TAC and Structural TAC recommendation, Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
Ms. Hammonds read project four with response.
Commissioner Compton entered motion to accept the
Code Administration TAC and Structural TAC recommendation, Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
23
Applications
for Product Entity Approval (cont.):
Ms. Hammonds read project five with response.
Commissioner Compton entered motion to accept the
Code Administration TAC and Structural TAC recommendation, Commissioner Schock
seconded the motion. The motion passed
unanimously.
Ms. Hammonds advised the Chairman that would
conclude the declaratory statements; however she did have one more legal issue
to address before the Commission. She
reminded all Commissioners that they are required to submit their financial
disclosure statements, if they have not already done so by the first of July.
Chairman Browdy advised that they should have been
mailed out to them and if they have not received them, they may go online and
download them.
Update
on 5th Edition of the Florida Building Code:
Chairman Browdy advised we reported at
the April meeting, the Commission voted at the August 2013 meeting to make the
effective date of the Florida Building
Code Fifth Edition (2014) midnight December 31, 2014. He
stated the selection of this date was to meet the statutory requirement to
coordinate with the adoption of the updated version of the Florida Fire
Prevention Code, which was being developed with an effective date of midnight
December 31, 2014. Chairman Browdy said that the Commission is also statutorily
required to have the Florida Building Code published for 6 months after
adoption before it becomes effective. He advised as a result the effective date
of the Florida Building Code Fifth
Edition (2014) is dependent on when the Florida Fire Prevention Code 2013 is adopted. Chairman
Browdy stated at the April meeting Commissioner Charles Frank reported on the
status of adoption of the Florida Fire
Prevention Code 2013 and indicated he thought the adoption
process was on schedule for completion this summer. Chairman Browdy asked Commissioner Frank for
an update.
Commissioner Frank advised
everything is on target for the same dates provided in April.
Chairman Browdy stated that based
on this report (DSFM completing rule adoption by the end of August) the
Commission would not be able to schedule a rule adoption hearing for the 5th Edition Florida Building Code (2014) until
the October meeting, and will need to adjust the effective date based on a
realistic assessment of when the rule adoption process can be completed. If the
rule adoption hearing occurs in October than the earliest effective date for
the Florida Building Code would be March 1, 2015, and possibly later depending
on final adoption of the Code and the need to comply with the six month
publication requirement prior to the effective date.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
24
Update
on 5th Edition of the Florida Building Code:
Chairman Browdy recommend that
the Commission wait until the August 2014 meeting to take formal action on
changing the effective date for the 5th
Edition Florida Building Code (2014) so we have a clearer idea of a
realistic effective date based on the adoption of the Florida Fire Prevention Code 2013 as well as whether the
Commission will be able to conduct a rule adoption hearing on the Code at the
October 2014 meeting.
Rule Hearing, 61G20-3.015
Chairman Browdy stated at the
December 13, 2013 meeting the Commission amended Rule 61G20-3.015, Equivalence
of Standards, to recognize that FRSA/TRI 07320-5 is recognized as equivalent to
FRSA/TRI Fifth Edition for determining Code compliance, and ANSI/DASMA
108-2012 is recognized as equivalent to ANSI/DASMA 108-2005 for determining
Code compliance. DBPR has received comments from Joint Administrative Procedures
Committee (JAPC) on the proposed rule regarding incorporating the relevant
reference documents into the Rule, and correcting the title of the FRSA/TRI
Fifth Edition in the Rule to correlate with the reference document’s title.
Chairman Browdy stated that Jeff
Blair will be providing a review and facilitating the public comment process as
we try to reconcile this particular difference and the comments from JAPC.
Chairman Browdy announced the
Rule Adoption Hearing was now open and the staff will receive the proposed rule
language revisions based on JAPC’s comments.
Jeff Blair asked if the language
needed to be read or would the overhead be enough. He stated that the public session is open.
April Hammonds, Esq. stated that
there may not be a need to read the language, but would suggest that it be
read. She further stated with the most
recent letter from JAPC regarding the first one was April 16th had
been that there request for copies of ANSI/DASMA and things of that nature as
we have discussed today. Ms. Hammonds
stated the most recent letter was regarding changing the language, she said the
only change in language that has occurred on the screen is that the paragraph
61G20- 3.015(4)(d) referred to a document as FRSA/TRI April 2012 (04-12)
Florida High Wind Concrete Clay Roof Tile Installation Manual, 5th
Edition, now the document was provided had slightly changed in Title to
FRSA/TRI April 2012 (04-12) Florida High Wind Concrete and Clay Tile
Installation Manual 5th Edition, so it appears that the word “and”
so we are here today for change.
Chairman opened the meeting to
public comment.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
25
Rule Hearing, 61G20-3.015 (cont.)
Mark Zehnal stated in response to
this question, he was not sure how this information got in there. He stated when this manual was discussed at
the Code meetings, they first put it in as FRSA/TRI/2012 and Jack brought up that
is not the way we do things with standards even though we used the number in
the 4th Edition, so they put the entire title in this rule and left
out the 2012, he stated he was not sure how this was submitted to JAPC.
Mark also wanted to bring up an
issue discussed with Mo and Jim regarding changes to the manual and these are
changes that need to be made, he was advised to bring them today and place them
before the Commission. He stated at the
break he handed out the new manual to the
Commissioners with some
additional pages with changes they would like to make. He further stated first, they would like to
change the cover so that it states revised, as there are some changes that are
really important and also page one, note where it says the disclaimer, where it
has roof tiles has been stricken through and they want to remove and make it a
general statement for all product approval and all components used in product
approval and not just identified for roof tile.
Mark said you will need product approval for the tile, product approval
for underlayment; you will need product approval for any component for skylight
or something and for hip and ridge board.
Mark stated on page 4, where is
refers to single ply systems to remove the words compatibly primed and the
reason for this is because what it is demonstrating is that you can only use a
compatibly primed system and if you check the underlayment manufacturer for
peel and stick products they have it where you can use it or not use it. He stated the people he has spoken with have
tested it without the primer so as a contactor should they want to use the
primer in addition they could use, but in this case it would be restricted, so
they would like to have that removed.
Mr. Zehnal stated the next page
would be page 9. He stated at the bottom
left hand column, goes to the right top column, this is wording that has been
in the roof tile manuals TRI/FSRA for a roof tile manuals 4th
Edition and it is in RAS120, this information is for adhesive set or mortar set
tile and tile systems above six and twelve.
He said this has to do with lateral loads and it is really not the tile
installation itself, it has to do with slippage of tile. He further said generally this is in the
information of the adhesive manufacture instructions, not their product approval,
so it would be hard to get to, so they wanted to have it once again in the
manual, since they were going to complete a re-print of the manual.
Mark stated on page 11, in the
middle of the page on right hand side where it says three quarters of an inch
under break and gable in the manual it reads one inch and it has always been
three quarters of an inch and it has been in the past and RAS as well.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
26
Rule Hearing, 61G20-3.015 (cont.)
Mr. Zehnal stated on page 12
there was a misspelled word, methods was spelled wrong, and they would like
that to be corrected. He stated on page 14, you will see Table 1A this is the
most important change. He said you have
letters from Ron Ogawa, licensed engineer; he made the tables and gives an
explanation as to why the table in the manual now is different. Gary Walker has worked with Mr. Ogawa and
agrees with it, he stated they have talked with Eric Stafford who spoke with Mo
about it. He stated they really need to
have this changed. He said originally,
if you read the letter, he identifies using ICC 600 code and if you remember
back when we were changing to the ASCE 7-10, there was some confusion about the
reduction factor and they used that reduction factor on the wind tables for
ASCE 7-05 which is what ICC 600 code is based on. He stated they are nominal loads there, so
there was an additional point six factor taken, so the numbers that are in the
existing manual right now are deficient, so they want to replace the page.
Mr. Zehnal stated he would be
glad to answer any questions.
Chairman Browdy stated he would
assume as a result of the rule hearing we would need being incorporating those
changes that JAPC was looking for and your requesting to incorporate these
changes in the revised 5th Edition of the FRSA Manual.
Mr. Zehnal stated that was correct.
Chairman Browdy asked if there
any comments from the public.
Commissioner Swope stated he
agreed with the changes that are being put in and has no objection. He stated that a lot of the changes are just
editorial changes. He further stated he
did agree with the putting in the adhesive mortar installation.
Joe Belcher, representing the
Concrete Industry and Masonry Industries of Florida. He stated they support the changes that Mark
Zehnal has submitted. He stated this is
a chance to get a good code, he has identified the errors that would wind up
with substandard or below code level products, use of the products.
Jamie Gascon, Miami-Dade County
speaking also in favor and support of the changes that were made into the table
A and correlating it with ASCE 7-10 requirements, he said those would be the
correct values for use.
Chairman
Browdy asked if there were any comments from the Commission.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
27
Rule Hearing, 61G20-3.015 (cont.)
Commissioner Gross stated he
agrees with the changes too, he had a question, he stated the last meeting we
were saying the 5th Edition would be equivalent to the 4th
Edition tables. He asked is the 5th
Edition equivalent to the 4th Edition?
Mr. Zehnal stated the last
meeting when discussion was held on equivalency standards, the installations
procedures are the same, he said it falls back on the product approval like he
said earlier. He said the tables that
were in the 4th Edition were based on ASCE 702 calculations and they
did not incorporate or include exposure category D which is in this manual
which is an extremely large area in the State of Florida.
Commissioner Gross, asked if the
answer is yes. He asked if the 5th
manual be entirely equivalent to the 4th, can you use the 5th
entirely and not have to refer to the 4th.
Mark Zehnal stated yes, they
would encourage because of the design pressures that are in here, especially
the updated design pressures, in the case now if you expose category D, that is
not a table you will find in the 4th Edition.
Commissioner Stone stated he had
two questions, he said as he understand it we are under rule making we can
accept the addenda as proposed and will the manual be re-printed or will
changes be separately published?
Mark Zehnal stated that there
will be a re-print; they are making every effort to re-claim any and all
manuals that have been sent back. He
requested the Commission to return the manuals they had been given for this
meeting.
April Hammonds, Esq. advised Mr.
Zehnal that we will need a copy of the full document to submit to JAPC. She stated that was one of the comments prior
to and that is where some of the language came from, people thought we were not
going to put this in. She further stated
when JAPC sees the whole document; this is what they will need to see. If not, JAPC will be sending us another
letter.
Mr. Zehnal stated he would send
this electronically to Mr. Madani.
Commissioner Swope entered a
motion to accept the changes and incorporate into Rule 6120-3.015, the changes
in the revised 5th Edition of the FRSA Manual, the Florida High
Winds Concrete and Clay Tile Installation Manual with the inclusion of Table
1A.
Chairman Browdy asked if there
was any further comments, there being none the Rule Hearing was closed.
Commissioner Boyer seconded the motion.
The vote passed unanimously.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
28
Rule Hearing, 61G20-3.015 (cont.)
Chairman Browdy stated that the
changes will need to be incorporated as requested by JAPC. He stated a motion would be needed to
incorporate the revised rule language based JAPC’s comments into the rule.
Jim Richmond stated by going to
the revised edition, we have addressed the short comings that JAPC referred to
us, so there is no need for further changes; we just need to accurately include
the title of the 5th Edition which we have already referenced.
Chairman Browdy stated that there
is no need to respond specifically to say that the Commission has responded to
those comments.
April Hammonds stated that is
correct as long as it was voted on and addressed by the Commission.
Joint
Administrative Procedures Committee Correspondence: Permit Extensions in the Florida Keys: ( Letter)
(Follow
up)
Chairman Browdy advised that the Commission received a letter from JAPC indicating that they
have questions/concerns regarding Monroe County’s adoption of guidelines for
implementation of permit extension provisions pursuant to s. 11, Chapter
2013-213, Laws of Florida. He stated that JAPC indicates that due to sewer
system construction and the requirement to meet new water quality standards the
legislation provided that starting July 1, 2013 for permits with an expiration
date of January 1, 2012 – January 1, 2016, the permit is extended for a period
of 3 years after its previously scheduled expiration date. JAPC asserts: “the
plan language of the law provides for an immediate three-year extension of the
expiration date of the permit”. JAPC questions Monroe County’s implementation
of the provisions as inconsistent with the Law. Chairman Browdy said that Monroe
County indicates that they believe their implementation of the process is not
inconsistent with the Law and that they must also comply with the Florida
Building Code section 553.73, F.S. He
said they assert they must comply with the permit extension and the Code,
specifically Section 105.4.1.1. He advised they said this section of the Code
provides that: “If work has commenced and the permit is revoked, becomes null or
void, or expires because of lack of progress or abandonment, a new permit
covering the proposed permit shall be obtained before proceeding with the
work”. Further, “Work shall be considered to be in active progress when the
permit has received an approved inspection within 180 days”. Monroe County
asserts that, “nothing in the new extension is intended to pre-empt or
contravene existing Building Code and permit requirements”. Chairman Browdy stated that JAPC is
requesting that the Commission review the documentation and advise the
Committee whether the Monroe County’s
“interpretation of the provisions of s. 11, Chapter 2013-213, Laws of Florida,
is
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
29
Joint
Administrative Procedures Committee Correspondence: Permit Extensions in the Florida Keys
(cont.):
consistent with
that of the Florida Building Commission and,
if not, to advise the Committee of the Commission's understanding of the applicability of
the law and how it intends to reconcile any differences of
opinion”.
Chairman Browdy
advised that Jim Richmond will provide the Commission with an overview and
April Hammonds will provide the legal analysis.
Jim Richmond stated
that Senator Kiser is here today to speak with the Commission. Jim provided a full overview of the
correspondence for the Commission. He
expanded the overview to include the permit process in the Keys and the
Legislative decision to allow extensions on permits. Jim continued giving the Commission the
limitations on responses and how they are obtained. He then turned the floor over to Mr. Kiser to
explain his circumstances.
Senator Kiser
stated he wanted to ask for help. He
said his issue started well over a year and one half ago when a number of them
approached Monroe County about getting an extension for their building permits
as the sewer plant was not due to be completed until sometime in 2015 and their
permits would run out before then and they would be in jeopardy of losing
them. Mr. Kiser stated he approached the
county and explained his background and called Mr. Richmond and he informed him
he should to come and ask for a waiver of the section of the code dealing with
the 180 days due to conditions. Mr.
Kiser gave history of what the County wanted to do with changes in laws and his
expression of what would be easier and the County continued the process to have
the statute passed a year ago and with his help it passed. He was back in Monroe County to requests
permits for his docks and provided information on his plan, the building
official stated the time you start the construction he will lose his three year
extension. Mr. Kiser quoted statute
change and it is against the law and the county cannot change the law by administrative
rule. He stated he was using the statute
that allows the Florida Building Code to be in effect. Mr. Kiser advised they needed to be clear on
what the statue states; however, they continued with their local ordinances and
thus tried to modify the statute. He
stated he is working with the local government to clear this issue of permit
extensions, however, has had issues with them trying to override the law. The County continued with local ordinances to
implement the changes in the permit extensions.
He stated they are still holding the information, have not asked for
declaratory statement, it has just sat with no action. Mr. Kiser is trying to get the county to move
on these requirements working with some contractors and they are working with
him. He expanded on his part in writing
JAPC, Chapter 120 and worked with JAPC 20 plus years and is very familiar with
their process. Mr. Kiser stated you cannot amend a statute with an
Administrative Rule. He spoke with Mr.
Plant and stated he is looking for clarification from the Commission recognized
that an Administrative Rule cannot amend a statute and this is what we need
from the Commission.
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June
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Joint
Administrative Procedures Committee Correspondence: Permit Extensions in the Florida Keys
(cont.):
Chairman
Browdy advised Senator Kiser that he understood his issue and would like for
our legal counsel to offer an opinion of the Commission’s authority.
April Hammonds, Esq.
stated it was an honor to speak with Senator Kiser, she did advise that there
were some items should address and there were items that would be out of the
scope for the Commission.
She stated that she
agreed with the case law provided which clearly states a statute supersedes a
rule. She further stated the Florida
Building Code is a rule, it is not a statute, statute directs that it be done,
but the Code is a rule only, it is 61G20-1.001, so a rule would not supersede
the statute. Ms. Hammonds states she
feels the issue from the letter received from Mr. Plant, is a request for
interpretation from the Commission regarding section 11 Chapter 2013-1213 Laws
of Florida. She said when you get into
interpretations, you have to work with non-rule policy statements, and she said
there is concern that if the Commission issues an interpretation without the rule
making process, it could be problematic for the Commission. Ms. Hammonds stated she is not sure that
would be necessary, this is a statute and she does not understand what might be
going on in Monroe County, again no rule will override the statute and she
feels the Commission could also agree.
She said this is the point where she would stop and not give any further
legal advice.
Chairman Browdy
asked the Commission for questions.
Commissioner Schock
stated he had a clarifying question, he does agree with counsel that statute
overrides rules, he wanted clarification on extensions. He further gave the explanation of the 180
days extension of the Code. He asked how
you can have an extension before you have a permit.
Senator Kiser
stated that the statute was recommended by Monroe County and they had an
inclusive definition for all different things, after passing, he did ask that
likewise the permit for the dock was included; they stated no, only those
permits delayed by the sewer plant completion.
He stated they made a verbal change not all permits. He stated his main concern is over the home
building.
Commissioner Brown questioned
Counsel, if the use of the word interpretation in the letter from Mr. Plant is
problematic, would it be possible that a phone call to Mr. Plant and
conversation could help him construct his question in a manner that Legal could
respond with information provided today.
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Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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Joint
Administrative Procedures Committee Correspondence: Permit Extensions in the Florida Keys
(cont.):
Ms. Hammonds stated she had the
response from Monroe County to Mr. Plant, she said that JAPC presented Monroe
County with a series of questions asking what their statutory authority was to
override the section 2013, they responded stating their authority came from
section 105.4.1.1 of the Florida Building Code as adopted by Section
553.73. She stated they are considering
the Code as being a statute, the Code is a rule, she feels if she states that
the Florida Building Code is adopted as a rule and is incorporated by reference
as a rule and only a rule, that may solve the situation, she stated she did not
know that, if not Mr. Plant would contact us again.
Commissioner Brown asked Ms.
Hammonds if she felt she would be able to provide this legal opinion to them.
Ms. Hammonds stated yes, she
could and would share this information as this is not an opinion but a fact.
Commissioner Tolbert wanted to
know how the Commission is involved, have the permits been issued, applied for,
and what stage are you at?
Senator Kiser advised these are
permits that have been issued and some have been issued for quite some time but
because of the economic conditions several years ago, the Legislature had
passed a couple one year and two year extensions to keep the permits alive.
Commissioner Calleja asked to
make a motion to instruction legal counsel to communicate the answer.
Commissioner Dean stated if there
is any action she will abstain due to conflict of interest.
Commissioner Brown entered a
motion to instruct Legal Counsel to provide information as presented
today. The motion was seconded by
Commissioner Calleja, the motion passed with 22 members in favor with one
Commissioner abstaining.
Chairman Browdy stated that the Commission
will ask legal counsel to send a letter to JAPC in all cases that the statute
trumps the Code and that the Code is a rule.
Commission
Meetings and Locations:
Chairman Browdy advised item
number twelve, he stated In order to make meeting dates, days and locations the
most efficient possible, staff would like to explore the Commission’s
flexibility regarding various possible options for meeting dates, days,
locations and format.
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June
20, 2014
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Commission
Meetings and Locations (cont.):
Jim Richmond explained in brief
we are having issues finding sites that will come close to our costs in the
past. He further stated that there are
contract issues with many locations. Jim
said the move to Friday meetings has caused some issues. He stated that there are no sites listed
beyond August as there are no contracts in place, he provided reasons for this
issue.
Jim said there will be an e-mail
to all Commissioners that has the current slate of dates through physical year
2014-2015 and he would like days that are bad for them to attend to allow staff
to look at adjusting dates to secure locations.
Jim asked the Commissioners to respond with their input.
Chairman Browdy instructed the
Commissioners to take a look at the proposed schedule and respond.
Legislative
Activities:
Chairman Browdy moved to item
thirteen on the agenda Legislative activities.
He advised The Governor has signed HB 7147, and Jim will provide the
Commission with a report on how this Legislation impacts the Commission.
Jim Richmond provided an overview
of HB 7147 he asked if there are any questions.
He stated there will now be 27 Commissioners. He further stated pending appointments made
it through Committee and were confirmed.
Jim said that the Governor approved the budget and the $250,000 was in
the budget.
Commissioner Gross stated the
declaratory statements for the Accessibility was passed and he thanked everyone
that helped. He said his question is
will the staff look at how it will come to the TAC and Commission, will it be
submitted the same as other declaratory statements?
Jim said that these decisions
will be handled under the same process effective July 1, 2104.
Rules
Update:
Chairman Browdy advised that April
will provide the Commission with an update regarding Commission rules in
development and any rules pending for future development.
April Hammonds, Esq stated that
members of the Education POC are familiar with the 61G20-6.002. She said there is another letter is coming
from JAPC, but at this time we are not sure of what the actual language of the
letter is. She said there is apparently
some reference to an old form which will be address and brought it before the
POC.
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June
20, 2014
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Rules
Update (cont.):
April stated there is a new Rule
61G20-4.001 which is the new Accessibility Rule and there is now going to be a
fee that will be effective July 1st.
She further stated that there is going to be an online process to file
an accessibility waivers can be filed with uploading ability.
Review
and Approval of the Commission’s Fiscal Year 2013-2014 Annual Report:
Review
and Approval of 2013-2014 Annual Report
Chairman Browdy advised that the
Commission received a Summary of Issues and Recommendations for Inclusion in
the Annual Report at the April meeting. He said today the Commission will
review any legislative recommendations and approve the Commission’s Fiscal Year
2013-2014 Annual Report, and our plan as always, with your support and
approval, is for the Chair to review and approve the final draft of the Annual
Report, ensure completeness and accuracy, and approve the Report for submittal
to the Legislature and Governor. Chairman Browdy said that Jeff will provide an
overview of the Report for the Commission.
Jeff Blair provided an overview
of the report and asked for any public comment.
Jim Richmond provided detail of
the binding interpretation process and what would be needed for this
process. He gave details on the
requirements, the need to resolve BOAF concerns and the stakeholder
groups. He feels they should make
recommendations, however, it needs to be off the books, having it the way it is
causes difficulty for the Commission.
Chairman Browdy, asked Jim to
provide the numbers of interpretations in the past and an idea of how it was
used and the frequency.
Mo Madani stated there has been
about ten all together since inception that is in a period of about six to
eight years.
Chairman Browdy stated based on
staff’s recommendation and the frequency they are used, he would like to
entertain a motion from the Commission that unless a stakeholder group proposes
statutory changes to resolve BOAF’s concerns, then the Commission recommends to
the Legislature that this authority be repealed. He said we cannot do this under the
restrictions that we have now and our partner is not a partner in the process
any longer.
Commissioner Schiffer entered the
requested motion. The second was given
by Commissioner Gross.
Commissioner Calleja asked if the
only issue is the Sunshine Law, if they were taken away would that solve the
issue.
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Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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34
Review
and Approval of the Commission’s Fiscal Year 2013-2014 Annual Report (cont):
Jim Richmond stated the main one
was the Sunshine Law and there were other issues but he does not believe it
financial.
Commissioner Schiffer asked if
the commission should be devising a system.
Chairman Browdy stated this is
voting on a recommendation.
Commissioner Brown asked if the
result be the tail wagging the dog, it is the Building Commission’s
responsibility to advance the Code and to have someone who is responsible for
following the Code be unwilling to subject themselves, it seems our
recommendation to say to the Legislature that the rule needs to be followed.
Chairman Browdy stated you cannot
force someone to do that. He stated the
piece now written, the name of the Trade Organization is in the law, we cannot
move them out and if they refuse to do it even though it is in the law, it will
paralyzes us to do our job.
Chairman Browdy asked for vote on
motion, the motion carried unanimously.
Chairman Browdy asked for a
motion to adopt the Commission’s Fiscal Year 2013 – 2014 Annual Report, including any Commission actions taken today, and to charge
the Chair with reviewing and approving the Final Report prior to submittal to
the Legislature and Governor.
Commissioner Brown entered a
motion as requested by the Chairman, seconded by Commissioner Bassett, the
motion passed unanimously.
Committee
Reports and Recommendations:
Chairman Browdy asked Committee
Chairmen, to confine their TAC/POC reports to a brief summary of key issues and
recommendations, emphasizing any issues requiring an action from the
Commission. Please frame any needed Commission action in the form of a
motion. There is no need to read the
TAC/POC minutes since the complete minutes will be linked to the committees’
subsequent meeting agendas for approval by the respective committees.
Code Administration Technical
Advisory Committee
Mo Madani provided a brief
summary of the Code Administration TAC meeting June 5, 2014 held via
teleconference.
Commissioner Bassett entered
motion to approve the TAC report.
Commissioner Compton seconded the motion, the motion passed unanimously.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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35
Committee
Reports and Recommendations (cont.):
Education
Program Oversight Committee
Commissioner Dean provided a b brief summary of the
POC meeting of June 12, 2014 held via teleconference.
Commissioner Dean entered a
motion to approve the POC report, Commissioner Bassett seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously.
Electrical
Technical Advisory Committee
Commissioner Flanagan provided a b brief
summary of the TAC meeting of June 5, 2014 held via teleconference.
Commissioner Flanagan entered a
motion to approve the TAC report, Commissioner Dean seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously.
Product
Approval Program Oversight Committee
Chairman Browdy advised there was no report from
the Product Approval POC.
Special Occupancy Technical
Advisory Committee
Commissioner Phillips provided a b brief
summary of the TAC meeting of June 6, 2014 held via teleconference.
Commissioner Phillips entered a
motion to approve the TAC report, Commissioner Schilling seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously.
Structural
Technical Advisory Committee
Commissioner Schock provided a b brief
summary of the TAC meeting of June 6, 2014 held via teleconference.
Commissioner Schock entered a
motion to approve the TAC report, Commissioner Smith seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously
Fire
Technical Advisory Committee
Mo Madani provided a b brief
summary of the POC meeting of June 4, 2014 held via teleconference.
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Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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36
Committee
Reports and Recommendations (cont.):
Commissioner Schiffer entered a
motion to approve the TAC report, Commissioner Smith seconded the motion, the
motion passed unanimously
New
Employee Introduction:
Mo Madani addressed the
Commission and introduction of a new staff member Norman Bellamy who will be
replacing Ann Stanton. He said Norman
will be covering the Energy Code and Mechanical Code. Mo stated he would like to welcome Norman to
the Commission and the Building and Standards Office.
General Public Comment:
Chairman Browdy opened the floor to public
comment.
Mark Deegan, Chairman of the
Board for the Florida Chapter of IAEI, stated he was here today to ask the
Commission to please read over the approved resolution of the International
Association of Electrical Inspectors, Florida Chapter. He asked that they consider on the effect of
not being current on the NEC and NFPA standards that it has on the citizens and
their safety with lower insurance rates.
He further said the Electrical Industry would benefit from updated
products and machinery. Mr. Deegan said
education is needed to ensure that the inspectors are up to date on the
Code. He said that IAEI encourages the
Florida Building Commission to comply with provisions outlined in F.S. 553.88
and adopt the most current edition of the NEC as a standalone code and not as a
referenced standard adopted by the Florida Building Code.
Brian Holland, Regional Field
Representative with NEMA, he is in support of the resolution and request
support from the Commission to support the adoption of the edition of the
electrical code without amendments.
Chairman Browdy asked if
Commissioner Flanagan had any input on these comments.
Commissioner Flanagan stated the
Electrical TAC agrees they would like for the 2014 become a part of the 5th
Edition 2014. He stated he did not know
the rules and regulations on that, but he was sure the staff would know.
Chairman Browdy asked Mr. Madani
to provide the schedule would be for the adoption, integration of the latest
code and the request is not to do this by reference. There has to be a process including fiscal
impact.
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Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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General Public Comment (cont.):
Mr. Madani stated there is no
choice but to adopt it by reference because if you look at the Florida Building
Code, whether it is the Residential Code or the Building volume, it does refer
to the NEC and it is for Residential and does have a specific requirement based
on the edition of the NEC. He stated
adopting it separate will not work it will have to be adopted by reference
based on the way the Code is structured.
Mo further stated the problem that you have to consider is that the FBC
and the Florida Fire Prevention Code references the 2011 NEC, we are trying to
be consistent and move forward, so adopting 2014 NEC will cause issues with the
Fire Code. He said moving to a new
edition of the NEC which is not referenced in the foundation code, you will
have to address the cost impact. Mo
stated we are trying to move the 5th Edition forward, if you
continue to add new modifications, it can cause further delay.
Chairman Browdy asked if this
would have to be noted in the Fire Prevention Code before we can embrace it in
the Florida Building Code.
Mr. Madani stated currently we
are consistent with the Fire Prevention Code and any change would disrupt the
consistency.
Chairman Browdy asked
Commissioner Frank if he had any input.
Commissioner Frank stated there
would be conflict between the two, and the references throughout the document
will reference 2011 NEC, which means all references would have to be changed.
Chairman Browdy asked if there
was any way to the get the new NEC code into the 5th Edition 2014.
Mr. Madani stated no.
Mr. Richmond stated if we tried
to do this, the ICC would have issues with publishing.
Chairman Browdy asked if there is
any prohibition on a jurisdictional basis on any jurisdiction on their own
enforcing the latest NEC.
Jim Richmond stated that there
would be some restriction on that except the extent that it is an equivalent or
an alternate to the provisions that are in the current Code adopted by
reference. He further stated that to the
extent that it provides greater protection, it could be allowed under
equivalents and alternates under the Building Code at the discretion of the
local building code authority.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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38
General Public Comment (cont.):
Chairman Browdy advised that they
should work with the Electrical TAC and determine what may be done to
coordinate dates to better line up updates.
Mr. Deegan thanked the Commission
for their time and advised that they will all be working together more closely
as he realizes they have been somewhat absent from the Commission and the
Electrical TAC.
Dwight Wilkes, Key Tech. stated
he is also a member of the Electrical TAC and he knows that Commissioner
Flanagan is going to do his best to see what can be done to move this forward
at the next code cycle, so that this will not happen again. He said the members of the TAC relied heavily
on Terry Baker who worked hard to ensure code development, they lost Terry
Baker the first of the year and they lost one of the lead individuals in the
State. Dwight stated he hopes that the
TAC Chair will work with staff to be better prepared for the next cycle.
Mark Zehnal, FRSA, stated he
wanted to thank the staff for their help with the manuals viewed today.
Dwight Wilkes, Key Tech. stated
8-10 months back in a discussion in public comment, there were some declaratory
statements and at the end of the meeting, he had brought up the issue that a
lot of times products obtain approval through the state and somewhere embedded
maybe on a third page of a product it says site specific engineering is
required. He said there are not a lot of
products that do that, he is hoping as we move forward with the rule, that when
an applicant applies for product approval or revision to their product and that
product requires site specific engineering, he answers yes or no whether or not
site specific is needed. Dwight said
there are not many, but they do see them and this needs to be answered and
available to the inspectors.
Mo Madani stated there is an application
that has limitation of use on it and has the list of specific things, this
could be added but would require rule change.
Chairman Browdy stated that when
the rule is open, this should be brought up for discussion to be added.
Dwight Wilkes stated Commissioner
Phillips is going to expand upon the special occupancy requests for additional
research on when an historical buildings and AAMA would like to be a part of
that.
Chairman Browdy asked if there
were any further questions or comments from the public. There being none, he thanked them for their
participation and input.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
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39
Commissioner Comment:
Commissioner Swope asked if the Energy
Code could go through the same equivalency of standards process that we went
through with the Product Approval POC.
Mr. Madani asked the Energy Code? Commissioner Swope corrected by saying the
Electrical Code, could they not use the same process as Product Approval, is
there not a way go through the equivalency of standards as a way of updating
that standard.
Mr. Madani said the equivalency of
standards is specific to Product Approval, which is in the rule. He said the NEC does not have product
approval.
Commissioner Swope asked if this could
be done maybe through a Glitch cycle as a result of updated standards and
updated technologies.
Chairman Browdy stated he felt there is
a deeper problem that is the reconciliation with the Fire Prevention Code and
other issues that occur as a result of that.
He said if there is a way to facilitate it, the will of the Commission
is there, he feels it needs more than equivalency of standards.
Jim Richmond stated it is recognized as
a “statutory glitch”, you can update the electrical code it is really not a new
issue. He said this issue was old where
the parties were not working together to line up the changes. He said this is a practical problem, as you
do have building codes and fire prevention codes that adopt by reference and
they all have the mesh together.
Commissioner Bassett stated he would not
be attending the August meeting due to prior commitment.
Commissioner Calleja stated regarding
the issue with the code cycles with updates and conversation among trades and
he feels the Home Builders Association mentioned skipping a cycle. He said perhaps not a whole cycle but he
feels we should move forward and be after the Fire Code is due if the Fire Code
is due at the end of this year, our code will be next year and that way we do
not have to wait for them, we can switch and move to the latest NEC code. He said if we take a one year skipping cycle
so that they will be behind us as we always refer to the latest Fire Code then
we can change to the update code on everything.
He stated we are always behind, it seems like the regulatory system is
stacked against us to fix anything quickly.
Commissioner Schiffer stated maybe we
should have a task force to take a look at the codes and the cycles, so much
came up today that has to do with the coordination and cycling of standards,
either base codes or our work. He said
the losers in this are the design professionals as they do not know what code
they will be building on next year.
FBC
Plenary Session
June
20, 2014
Page
40
Commissioner Comment (cont.):
Chairman Browdy stated if there was some
magic formula that would create reconciliation between the bodies it may work.
Commissioner Gilson, referenced a prior
conversation with the Home Builders Association that made him feel
uncomfortable. He stated he did not want
people to feel uncomfortable coming up to speak. He further stated he wanted this noted.
Chairman Browdy stated if there were no
further comments and there are no objections, he would entertain a motion to
adjourn.
Commissioner Gross entered a motion to
adjourn. Commissioner Meyer seconded the
motion. The motion passed unanimously.
The meeting was adjourned at 12:46 pm.