Meeting was called to order at 8:35 a.m., September 15, 2008

1. Review and Approval of the September 2008 Agenda

Motion: To approve as submitted

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

2. Review and Approval of June 2008 Minutes

Motion: To approve as submitted

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

3. Discussion on rule development for course audit form and BCIS accreditation module and forms

Chair Browdy asked whether it is necessary to have a course audit form approved by rule and stated he would prefer not to have a form. Commissioners Gonzalez and Bassett expressed no opinion on this. Cam Fentriss commented that chapter 120, Florida Statutes, may require it. Jim Richmond commented that hopefully the criteria for audits are already articulated sufficiently in existing rule.

Commissioner Gonzalez asked whether licensure boards were performing course audits. Cam Fentriss said probably not much. Alex Kobyrn stated that one of their courses was audited this month by a CILB board member who simultaneously took the course and provided an oral finding of “good standing” and audit included sign in, course, content, and material, certificate, comment at end – “went in as a student and walked out and told us we are audited.” Alex Kobyrn stated that it is his belief that course auditing by FBC is duplicative, not necessary, and a waste of taxpayer money and, with an association being the auditor, it is a conflict of interest. Shelley Siegel, as a provider for BAID, stated that, for the BAID, she is not aware of any form used, and when audited, the person auditing identified him or herself on arrival, but she is not aware of any recent audits. Alex Kobyrn stated that the form used is a standard DBPR investigative report if necessary. Shelley Siegel is aware of some problem courses that came before the board.

Chair Browdy stated that it is important to have some mechanism to review courses.

Chair Browdy stated that the discussion will continue at the October meeting in Tampa and asked Cam Fentriss to research and provide background and recommendation with assistance of Jim Richmond as to whether a form is needed. Cam Fentriss committed to reviewing the rule and providing the POC with a report at the next meeting.

Chair Browdy referenced the BCIS accreditation module proposed forms. Cam Fentriss stated these draft forms were provided to POC members and would be provided shortly to FBC accreditors and providers for review and comment. Jim Richmond discussed some of the features and changes made to these proposed forms. It will be best to workshop this in October and bring them back for adoption in December.

Motion: For a rule workshop on the proposed accreditor, provider, and course

application forms for rule development at the October FBC Education POC meeting.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Chair Browdy will request FBC approval to hold a rule development workshop on the three proposed BCIS accreditation forms (accreditor, provider, and course applications) at the October POC meeting.

4. Review pending accredited courses for recommendation to the Commission

Course: Advanced Wind Mitigation Retrofits

Provider: Building Officials Association of Florida

Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh

BCIS Course Number: 315.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Course: Advanced 2007 FBC: Chapter 11 Compare to ADA/ABA 2004 and ANSI A117.1-03, Interior App

Provider: Donna Kirby, FASID

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 316.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Course: Advanced Backflow Prevention Internet Course

Provider: Contractor’s Continuing Education Systems, LLC

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 317.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

5. Review administratively approved updated advanced courses for recommendation to Commission – Considered and approved on consent agenda:

Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC; Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - CLASSROOM

Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.

Accreditor: Contractors Institute (Koning Enterprises, Inc.)

BCIS Course Number: 64.2

Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC; Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - INTERNET

Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.

Accreditor: Contractors Institute (Koning Enterprises, Inc.)

BCIS Course Number: 65.2

Course: Advanced 2004 Florida Building Code, Mechanical/Energy Summary 1 Hour

Provider: Don Scott & Associates, Inc.

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 318.0

Motion: Courses approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

6. Review pending accreditor applications for recommendation to the Commission

Application: Michael Rimoldi, Oak River Builders LLC

Chair Browdy stated that he was unable to download the application (only the resume). Commissioner Bassett stated that the cover form is not complete for lack of completed name and address and certain other information. Cam Fentriss stated that the subject/trade areas are all those listed on the cover form for this application. Med Kopczynski asked whether this application had been rejected at the last meeting. Chair Browdy did not see this in the June minutes. Med Kopczynski clarified that it may have been at an earlier meeting and that he believes the POC did not find sufficient qualification to be an accreditor. Cam Fentriss stated she would determine earlier review and contact the applicant for more complete information.

Motion: To defer consideration of the application until the next POC meeting.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

7. Whether the core course requirement for affected licensees should be eliminated; opinion from FBC general counsel; discussion of timeline for legislative action.

FBC General Counsel Jim Richmond commented that the draft legislation looks comprehensive. He is concerned about FBC proposing or supporting changes to statutes beyond chapter 553, Florida Statutes, as problematic for the primary state agencies, but there is no objection from FBC to industry moving forward with changes beyond chapter 553. Jim Richmond referenced concerns raised by Rick Dixon about policy implications of FBC supporting any legislation that eliminates any codes-related education.

Jim Richmond stated that FBC is looking to finalize legislative issues in December and, for the FBC legislative package, the proposed changes should probably be restricted to those in chapter 553, Florida Statutes, with allowance for others to take up the corresponding changes in licensure chapters.

Cam Fentriss commented that there are problems with tracking the number (and types) of licensees who have completed the core course. Alex Kobyrn disagrees with the comment by Cam Fentriss that there are problems tracking and stated that the DBPR Bureau of Education and Testing tracks all information related to it. He stated that the BCIS system is somewhat up in the air since BASF has taken over. He further commented that he believes the problem with the core course is that DCA/FBC is trying to sole source the provision of the course to FSU and this is a problem for providers. Alex Kobyrn did state that he supports elimination of the core course.

Cam Fentriss also commented that in discussion with several providers, there is agreement that it is time to repeal the core as having outlived its usefulness. Some licensees are not informed of a requirement to take the core, and there is a fair amount of confusion for licensees and others as to what is a core course or an advanced course.

Chair Browdy asked Cam Fentriss to draft a proposal/resolution for POC review to take to the FBC for discussion and vote at the October 2008 meeting.

8. Further discussion and review of the draft of the downloadable Manual/Toolkit for training course development guidelines; Disclaimer; inclusion of course audit procedure and form.

Cam Fentriss stated that editing/proofing had not yet started waiting for any further comments from accreditors, providers, and the public and none have been received.

Chair Browdy asked that Cam Fentriss send a letter (by e-mail is acceptable) to all accreditors asking for review of the draft manual and that comments or corrections be submitted by a deadline.

There was no discussion on the draft disclaimers but there was reference to the handout provided for both the August and September 2008 meetings.

The subject of course audit procedure and form was addressed in agenda item 3.

9. Report by Building A Safer Florida, Contractor, Florida Building Code Compliance and Mitigation Program, including report on contract deliverables

Cam Fentriss referenced the one-page report provided on the contract for fiscal year 2007-2008 as a report and as background to consider what may be accomplished through the contract for fiscal year 2008-2009. Cam Fentriss noted that the funds for this fiscal year are dramatically less than for last year with the approximate amount for the current year $50,000 and possibly and additional $25,000 in January 2009. The committed cost/price for administration of the POC is approximately $9,000 of the $50,000.

Chair Browdy asked that POC members review the report for last year’s contract.

Alex Kobyrn asked the source of the funds for the contract last year and this year. Cam Fentriss stated surcharges from permit fees as well as some portion of licensee fees for construction and electrical contractors. Permit fees, and therefore surcharges, are down dramatically. Alex Kobyrn responded that he sees a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse in this report, and based on Alex Kobyrn’s survey, records from the CILB April through August 2008:

293 applications to CILB for courses

46 such applications were codes-related

16 wind mitigation (legislative driven)

6 went through FBC advanced codes approval process

Alex Kobyrn’s conclusion: codes-related courses are being developed but the developers/providers are circumventing the FBC because of the FBC process.

10. Education Administrator Activity Report

Chair Browdy asked Cam Fentriss to provide this report. There is not much of a report as most of the time has been spent in transition from Michael Clark to Building A Safer Florida as administrator to include learning the process with the BCIS system for processing courses and preparing for moving from the existing BCIS to the new system (which is now delayed). Rick Watson, Building A Safer Florida, provided a report on telephone calls received and handled as follows:

Approximately 40 in the last month

Approximately one-third of those relating to the core course

Approximately half are on the advanced codes course requirements

Approximately twenty percent are providers trying to post attendance or courses with

technical problems

Chair Browdy commented that his objective was to make sure someone was in place to perform the education administration tasks, including responding to calls and questions.

Cam Fentriss stated that there are two telephone numbers used for inquiries:

850-222-1348 for education inquiries

850-222-2772 for Building A Safer Florida’s main access number

Both telephone lines are available for inquiries.

Chair Browdy asked Ila Jones if the process of handling calls is acceptable. Ila Jones stated that, after the first two weeks of delay/adjustment, all seems to be operating properly and Building A Safer Florida seems to be doing a good job.

11. Discussion of possible projects under Florida Building Code Compliance and Mitigation Program contract for 2008-2009

Chair Browdy stated that this would be discussed at the October meeting in Tampa.

12. Identify future POC member discussion items

None

13. General public comment

Alex Kobyrn recommends that all the calls with education inquiries be forwarded to the DBPR Call Center which is already up and running, they can handle the questions from providers. Per Rick Watson calls are about one a day, and there is no reason for you to have this expense or create a new organization to handle these. Alex Kobyrn also stated that DBPR has a toll-free number that is more consumer friendly than what the FBC has established here. Chair Browdy responded that if there is duplication, it will be addressed.

Steve Bassett asked that the POC request more POC members to serve if the POC will continue. Chair Browdy stated that this request has been made but it will be renewed. Chair Browdy believes that FBC may be waiting for more commissioners to be appointed by the governor. There were five members and at least one has not been replaced.

Sharon Mignardi posed a question about the new BCIS and earlier discussion of beta testing by the providers/accreditors. Ila Jones stated that she believes ISF had sent the test website out to the accreditors for review. Sharon Mignardi, Joe Belcher, and Jane Waddel have not received this. Ila Jones committed it would be sent out.

14. Summary and review of meeting work products/action items, assignments, and next steps

Chair Browdy issued no other work assignments.

Chair Browdy stated that his report and request for approval to the FBC would be only the courses and other specifically stated actions that needed to be addressed before the October POC meeting.

Adjourn (Adjourned at 9:20 a.m.)

Motion: To adjourn

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Recommended Commission Actions

The following request for a rule development workshop is recommended for approval:

Motion: For a rule workshop on the proposed accreditor, provider, and course

application forms for rule development at the October FBC Education POC meeting.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Chair Browdy will request FBC approval to hold a rule development workshop on the three proposed BCIS accreditation forms (accreditor, provider, and course applications) at the October POC meeting.

The following new courses are recommended for approval:

Course: Advanced Wind Mitigation Retrofits

Provider: Building Officials Association of Florida

Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh

BCIS Course Number: 315.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Course: Advanced 2007 FBC: Chapter 11 Compare to ADA/ABA 2004 and ANSI A117.1-03, Interior App

Provider: Donna Kirby, FASID

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 316.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Course: Advanced Backflow Prevention Internet Course

Provider: Contractor’s Continuing Education Systems, LLC

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 317.0

Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

The following administratively approved updated advanced courses are recommended for approval:

Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC; Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - CLASSROOM

Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.

Accreditor: Contractors Institute (Koning Enterprises, Inc.)

BCIS Course Number: 64.2

Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC; Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - INTERNET

Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.

Accreditor: Contractors Institute (Koning Enterprises, Inc.)

BCIS Course Number: 65.2

Course: Advanced 2004 Florida Building Code, Mechanical/Energy Summary 1 Hour

Provider: Don Scott & Associates, Inc.

Accreditor: BCIC LLC

BCIS Course Number: 318.0

Motion: Courses approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.

Motion: Herminio Gonzalez

Second: Steve Bassett

Approved Unanimously

Note: This document is available in alternate formats upon request to the Department of Community Affairs, Codes and Standards, 255 Shumard Oak Blvd., Tallahassee, Fl. 32399, (850) 487 – 1824.