Florida Building Commission
August Education POC Meeting Minutes - DRAFT
Telephone
Conference Call Number 1-888-808-6959, Access Code: 1967168
In Person Attendance: Room 250L, 2555 Shumard Oak Boulevard, Tallahassee,
Florida
August 4, 2010
POC Members Present: Dick Browdy (Chair), Jon Hamrick, Herminio Gonzalez, Ken Gregory
POC Member(s) Absent: Jeff Stone, Drew Smith, Scott Mollan
Meeting
Attendees Identified:
Cam Fentriss Michael Clark
Med Kopczynski Jim Richmond
Ila Jones Joe Belcher
Sharon Mignardi Larry Schneider
Meeting was called to order at 11:01 a.m., August 4,
2010
1. Review and approval of the August
2010 Agenda
Motion: To approve as submitted
Motion: Ken Gregory
Second: Jon Hamrick
Approved
Unanimously
2. Review and approval of June 2010
Minutes
Motion: To approve as submitted
Motion: Ken Gregory
Second: Jon Hamrick
Approved
Unanimously
3. Review pending advanced accredited
courses for recommendation to the Commission
Course: Advanced Florida Building Code Principals
Provider: CE Resources LLC
Accreditor: JDB Code Services, Inc.
BCIS Course Number: 421.0
Discussion – Commissioner Hamrick stated that a reference was made to the makeup of the Commission as consisting of 23 members, which the commission is made up of 25 members. Also, he agreed with Cam Fentriss that the spelling of “Principals” in the title of the course should be changed to “Principles”.
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content, and also subject to
changing the spelling of the word “Principals” to “Principles” in the title and
changing the reference of 23 members of the Commission to 25 members of the
Commission.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced Training: Accessibility and the Florida Plumbing Code
Provider: Building Officials Association of Florida
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 428.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced ASCE 7 – With Significant Changes to the 2010 Edition
Provider: AIA Florida
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 430.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the author created an excellent course.
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Part 1 Internet
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 433.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Part 2 Internet Course
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 434.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Part 3 Internet Course
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 435.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Restaurants, Medical, Business Internet
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 441.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present .He
further stated that the timeline didn’t make sense to him.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida Energy Code
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 443.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced Wind Requirements in the Florida Building Code
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 442.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
4. Review administratively approved
updated advanced courses for recommendation to Commission
The Chair asked for a Consent Motion for the
administratively approved courses listed below.
Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC: Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - CLASSROOM
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.
Accreditor: Contractors Institute
BCIS Course Number: 64.3
Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC: Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - INTERNET
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course Number: 65.3
Course: Advanced 2007 Roofing Course Test Protocol Standard RAS - 127
Provider: Zara and Associates
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 312.1
Consent Motion: Courses approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
5. Review pending accreditor
applications for recommendation to the Commission
None
pending
6.
Update regarding the draft rule
language to allow self affirmation by providers, for advanced courses
requiring minor technical changes, instead of the currently required full
accreditation process
The Chair
stated that the POC has discussed this language in previous meetings. He then
read the specific language from 9B-70.002(3)(g) regarding course self
affirmation.
The Chair
asked if any POC members had comments regarding the language. No one offered
anything more.
Cam Fentriss
stated that the language is scheduled for rule hearing, if requested, August 17th
.
Jim Richmond
stated that the notice is posted online and to this point, no one has requested
a hearing. A hearing may be requested up until August 13. He said that if nothing happens, then it will
take effect no later than September 10, 2010, but could be earlier.
7.
Review, discuss, and choose projects to be funded for the remainder of
the 2010-2011 fiscal year, which will enhance the Commission’s education
program
The Chair
asked Cam Fentriss to comment on this agenda item.
Cam stated
that everyone should refer to the list posted under agenda item number eleven.
It is a list of potential projects for POC consideration with committed funds and
categories listed at the bottom of the page. Cam said that she placed the
potential projects into three categories:
·
Projects
to improve the BCIS
·
Projects
to improve course development
·
Projects
to improve courses
Cam said that
maybe 3-4 projects could be accomplished with the current funding level for
BCIS enhancements.
The Chair
stated that he would like to see a comment form be used by attendees after they
attend an approved course. He said that we currently provide a form of
oversight through course audits. Using a comment form filled out by attendees
would just be another form of oversight. Of course the idea is to solicit feedback
from attendees to find out the quality and accuracy of courses.
Commissioner
Hamrick asked if filling out the comment form would be voluntary or mandatory
for attendees. The comment form would be
voluntary.
Larry
Schneider stated that he thought that the form was a good idea, but he didn’t
think many people would fill it out. He said that even if it were posted
online, that again people would not fill it out.
The Chair
stated again that he thought this was a good idea and that feedback would be valuable
for determining course quality. He reiterated that he just wants a way to
collect public feedback regarding approved courses.
Cam Fentriss
said that the cost for doing this would be relatively minimal, to include both
development costs and maintenance costs---to be posted on the BCIS. She further
said that a question that needs to be answered about this form is---should it
be required by rule.
Jim Richmond
stated that if it were required in any way (e.g., either by dissemination or
collection), then it must be adopted by rule. He also said that DCA does not
want to process any paperwork associated with this form. So, it needs to be web
based and the storage of data from the form needs to be web based.
Commissioner
Hamrick expressed support for projects to improve/enhance course development.
The Chair asked that Cam Fentriss
prepare a proposal regarding the implementation of this possible project for
the POC to consider at the next meeting.
No further action was required.
8. Review and discuss the complaint
process regarding advanced course offerings
The Chair
asked Cam Fentriss to comment on this item.
Cam stated
that currently the complaint process is rough in nature.
Jim Richmond
stated that the process should be flexible. For example there is no set way to
receive complaints and no set way to respond to complaints. The basic reason
for this is that each complaint case is different, so some flexibility is
required regarding how each is handled. He further said that a complaint could
influence the direction of the fact finding process and course auditing is one
way to collect facts.
The Chair
asked Commissioner Gregory if he had any comments about this issue.
Commissioner
Gregory stated that he has received three complaints from manufacturers, which
focus on one instructor. The issue is that this instructor is making one or
more recommendations on the use of a particular product.
Jim Richmond stated
to Commissioner Gregory that a complaint should originate from the complaining
party (rather than a commissioner, unless the commissioner personally
experienced the subject of the complaint). Commissioner Gregory agreed with Mr.
Richmond.
No further
action was required.
9. Review and discuss the scope of the
Commission’s authority related to the
auditing of advanced courses as
described in Rule 9B-70.002, Florida Administrative Code
The Chair
read the language in 9B-70.002 related to the auditing of advanced courses. No
reactions or comments were offered.
10. Report on and discuss three course
audits recently completed by an approved contractor
The Chair
asked if Cam Fentriss would comment on this agenda item.
Cam stated
that three courses were randomly selected by the education administrator and audited
by Jack Glenn. The courses chosen were one instructor lead, one internet based,
and the accessibility course (at the request of the department). The form used
to collect the audit information was created by Michael Clark, then modified
and used by Jack Glenn.
The Chair
stated that he could not find the course accreditor’s name or the date of
accreditation on the form. He said that Michael Clark was going to add that
capability to the form.
11.
Education Administrator activity
report
The Chair
asked Cam Fentriss to provide the Education Administrator’s report.
Cam reported
on:
·
The
number of inquiries received
·
The
Rule 9B-70.002 hearing notice
·
The
reminder email message to FBC accreditors and providers regarding updated
courses
·
The
proposed 9B-70.002 rule hearing notice with language
·
The
current form used for audits
No comments
were offered by the Commissioners
12. Identify future POC member
discussion items
The Chair
asked if Commissioners had any suggested agenda items for the next POC meeting.
Commissioner Gonzalez
stated that he has seen inconsistencies regarding the accreditation of courses.
He further said that he wasn’t sure of the total process.
The Chair
stated that the way the basic process works regarding the approval of courses
is that they are accredited first, then reviewed by the POC.
The Chair
asked the accreditors attending the meeting if they would comment on their
process as they review course materials.
Larry
Schneider stated that he spent a minimum of four hours reviewing course
materials. Joe Belcher said that at times he would spend eight hours per
course. Larry further stated that the job of an accreditor is to look at the
accuracy of the code content, not the quality of the materials nor the course
delivery.
Commissioner
Gonzalez asked what if an accreditor did not do his/her job correctly.
Jim Richmond
stated that rule allows actions to be taken against accreditors under certain,
specific conditions.
The Chair
stated that the accreditation process was created so staff would not be
involved with the accreditation of courses. If someone feels like an accreditor
is not doing their job, then they need to report the specifics to the
Commission.
Commissioner
Hamrick stated that he felt that accreditors in general did an excellent job.
Med
Kopczynski stated that as an accreditor, he felt that Commissioner Hamrick’s
diligence when reviewing course materials challenged accreditors to do their
best work. He further said that some of the courses he accredited---he would
not pay to attend that course. He further reinforced the job of an accreditor
as one who checks for code content accuracy, not the quality of the course. He
said that he thinks the accreditation process is a good one. However, on
occasion a course will slip through the cracks.
Larry
Schneider stated that the Department of Justice has approved new ADA
regulations, which will require all accessibility courses to be updated in the
State of Florida. These regulations were passed on July 26, 2010, and will
become effective on January 26, 2012.
The Chair
asked if we will treat ADA related courses the same way we would treat other
updated code courses.
Jim Richmond
stated that we will need to update Chapter 11, but will treat/approve ADA
courses the same way we treat other code courses.
Larry Schneider
then said that we won’t know the extent of Florida changes to Chapter 11, until
after the Legislature approves those changes---and they probably won’t be
approved until after the effective date at the federal level. He further said
that the state should advertise a “buyer beware” to the public regarding these
courses.
Jim Richmond
stated that if the State of Florida is behind schedule regarding ADA changes,
then it will be up to builders and designers to voluntarily comply on their
own. He further stated that a new administration will be in office, and this
change will probably not be an immediate priority. However, the state has had a
work group addressing this issue, and we are probably ahead of most other
states when it comes to addressing and planning for these eventual changes.
13. General public comment
No public comment was offered.
14. Summary and review of meeting work
products/action items, assignments, and next steps
The Chair issued no additional assignments.
Adjourn (Adjourned at 12:04 am.)
Motion: To adjourn
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
The Education POC considered and recommends the
following:
The following new courses are recommended for approval:
Course: Advanced Florida Building Code Principals
Provider: CE Resources LLC
Accreditor: JDB Code Services, Inc.
BCIS Course Number: 421.0
Discussion – Commissioner Hamrick stated that a reference was made to the makeup of the Commission as consisting of 23 members, which the commission is made up of 25 members. Also, he agreed with Cam Fentriss that the spelling of “Principals” in the title of the course should be changed to “Principles”.
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC
accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building
Code related content, and also subject to
changing the spelling of the word “Principals” to “Principles” in the title and
changing the reference of 23 members of the Commission to 25 members of the
Commission.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced Training: Accessibility and the Florida Plumbing Code
Provider: Building Officials Association of Florida
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 428.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced ASCE 7 – With Significant Changes to the 2010 Edition
Provider: AIA Florida
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 430.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that the author created an excellent course.
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Part 1 Internet
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 433.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
BCIS Course Number: 434.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Part 3 Internet Course
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 435.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Fla. Building Code Advanced 2007 W 09 REV Ch 11 Restaurants, Medical, Business Internet
Provider: ce education llc
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 441.0
Discussion –
Commissioner Hamrick stated that references were made a couple of times in the
course that refer to a specific figure, but no figures were present. He also
said that an end of the course test would be offered, but no test was present .He
further stated that the timeline didn’t make sense to him.
Motion: Course approval has been deferred until requested changes and information have been provided, at which time the course will be resubmitted for accreditation and considered for approval.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida Energy Code
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 443.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Course: Advanced Wind Requirements in the Florida Building Code
Provider: BCIC LLC
Accreditor: Bill Dumbaugh
BCIS Course Number: 442.0
Motion: Course approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
The following courses are
recommended for administrative approval:
Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC: Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - CLASSROOM
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.
Accreditor: Contractors Institute
BCIS Course Number: 64.3
Course: Practitioner’s Guide to FBC: Accessibility Code and Fair Housing - INTERNET
Provider: Gold Coast School of Construction, Inc.
Accreditor: JC Code and Construction Consultants, Inc.
BCIS Course Number: 65.3
Course: Advanced 2007 Roofing Course Test Protocol Standard RAS - 127
Provider: Zara and Associates
Accreditor: BCIC LLC
BCIS Course Number: 312.1
Consent Motion: Courses approved based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content.
Motion: Jon Hamrick
Second: Ken Gregory
Approved Unanimously
Note: This document is available in
alternate formats upon request to the Department of Community Affairs, Codes
and Standards, 255 Shumard Oak Blvd., Tallahassee, Fl. 32399, (850) 487-1824.